So good, Haley! Thanks for sharing...you should consider entering this into a pro-life/right to life writing contest. I think each state has one, and there is also a national one. Hope all is well with your family. ~Sveta
This is an awesome story idea. You could write a whole book about this. I think though, she would be a little used to pro-life arguments. Instead if saying, "I thought it was a tissue at this point" she would probably say, "My fetus, it's not a child yet, you know." And, if she is assisting abortions, it depends on all she's doing, but she would probably know kind of what it looked like at that point. If you like, I can send you a pro-life track by Melody Green. She lists different methods of abortion, and though it's really, really--um, overwhelming and awful, you may like to read it. Let me know. Love you darling. Keep praying for the children in America!
I agree that a trained nurse in this kind of clinic environment would be well aware of every stage of pregnancy and development. Generally, women who work in abortion clinics feel they have a calling for the women and their situations equal to the calling the women working in the crisis pregnancy centers. In fact, women working in abortion clinics may need deep dedication as they are often harrassed on their way to work, by mail and get death threats, etc.
I believe that by 3 months, a widow who is in the medical profession would have already had prenatal care through a regular obgyn provider. I find it a stretch to believe a young widow who had a decent job (RN) would consider aborting a healthy fetus, because, as the author points out, she would want a part of her husband to continue.
The employee/employer interactions were a bit questionable as well. If she didn't like her job, there are quite a few jobs available for nurses in the USA, she would not be forced to work in an abortion clinic. Replacing her, depending on the area and how many threats exist toward people associated with the clinic might not be easy, but would not be impossible--and she would not be the only licensed nurse in the place, as that would mess with scheduling if she were sick. I would add her hollow threat at the end of telling people what the Doctor did in his clinic. There is not a state in the nation where who performs abortions is secret. Anti abortion groups publicize it and the abortion providers publicize it as well.
I know you'll just delete this comment and then change the parts of the story to make it look like you didn't make giant, factual mistakes but whatever.
Even as propaganda this is crap. As a creative story it's truly juvenile in writing style. There's no depth.
A 3 month old fetus doesn't BREATHE. It gets necessary oxygen through the o2 exchange between the umbilical cord and the placenta.
A RN would know exactly what a 3 month old fetus would look like especially one that worked at a women's health clinic (there are no "abortion" clinics - places that do only abortions).
Being repeatedly late to work doesn't make the doctor a bad guy, it makes the nurse irresponsible.
Hey Andrew, did you catch that this was a school assignment and that Haley is 17? Yeah, so...I guess that would explain the fact that it sounds "juvenile". I agree that speaking with a former abortion clinic nurse would have been beneficial, but as she had little time to complete this assignment, I still gave her a good grade. ~Haley's Mom
At 17 I had already been volunteering at the local women's health center for 3 years. I ran sex and sexuality education trainings. We were, and are, on the opposite side of the abortion debate but I did know my stuff back then. There is no excuse for her not knowing her stuff. No need to seek a clinic nurse to speak with (and no need for it to be a former clinic nurse if she does). Some internet searching of FACTUAL information (not simplistic propaganda) would have served well.
And of course you gave her a good grade. She's your kid and she agrees with your political beliefs. If the same level of writing had been done and it had been a pro-choice creative story I'm sure you wouldn't have given her the same "good grade."
I readily admit that Haley is not quite as educated about such matters as you were. As stated before, this was a quick school assignment (she chose the topic) and I am impressed with her writing style and wording. She is learning about research and eventually will "know her stuff". She posted this thinking it would be read only by her writing buddies; she really had no idea it would be posted in a forum where it would be torn apart. We will allow it to stay, because I believe there is a good lesson in responsibility to be learned here.
If she had written this from a pro-choice stance I would have much more to be concerned about than her level of writing. I would feel that I had failed miserably as a God-fearing Christian mom.
On a side note Andrew, I want to tell you that though I do not agree with your worldview, I do respect the fact that you at least sign your name, standing behind your words, rather than hiding behind anonymous comments. Thank you for that.
I sign my name because I'm not ashamed to say what I say, just as you aren't ashamed to say what you say. We certainly aren't going to agree, I just wish you'd let your daughter a little more space to think without worrying you'll disown or be upset by that. One of the BEST parts about creative writing is to take on a topic that's totally outside your worldview.
But we don't need to argue. I wish you and your family all the best.
No registered nurse would be able to complete her education without knowing what a fetus looks like in all stages of development. And there are many, many places in which a nurse could choose to work other than in a women's health center that provides abortions to those who choose them.
Have you ever visited one of these health centers? Have you ever spoken to people who work in them?
The entire section about Sarah's visit to the pregnancy crisis center makes no sense. Did she want to end her pregnancy or to have something by which she could remember her late husband? If she wanted to have her baby, why didn't she have an ob-gyn lined up and visit him/her instead? Why would she visit a pregnancy crisis center, when she could have gotten the ultrasound (perhaps for free) at the clinic where she worked?
And the Big Bad Dr. Owens character is laughable. "I'll ruin your name"? Making your characters into all-good or all-evil ones results in amateurish writing.
Thank you for your constructive criticism. I'm sure Haley will continue working on her story, including speaking with a Christian former nurse who assisted with abortions on occasion. Perhaps you would like to read her story, a woman who had an abortion herself and how when she found a perfectly formed tiny hand on her glove one day, she ran out of the operating room, refusing to return...Here's the link: http://www.deeprootsathome.com/now-i-value-life/
I think the main problem comes from the author's political stance. Pro-life propaganda is very simplistic. The argument seems to be that most pro-choice people are either evil or don't understand the biology of pregnancy. This simplistic propaganda leads pro-lifers to believe that screaming "a fetus is a BABY!" is a meaningful argument. Usually, pro-choice people do understand the nature of the embryo or fetus (BTW, a fetus is not 'breathing' and I'm guessing the word 'viable' doesn't mean what you think it means). Throwing around words like 'child' and 'miracle' will not cause a pro-choice person to magically change their mind.
Can you imagine being forced to carry a pregancy to term when you didn't want it? When you couldn't bear it? When the thought of it made you want to kill yourself? That is what the choice of abortion is for. It's not "all abortions, all the time!", it's not because pro-choicers don't want to have children or don't want others to have children. It's to have the option there if you need it.
Can YOU imagine being a helpless, vulnerable baby (which we all were at one time), safe and comfy in your mommy's womb when a sharp metal instrument suddenly invades your sanctuary, and begins ripping you apart. Babies do feel pain! Have you ever seen an abortion? Babies can be seen via ultrasound moving away from the metal tool (or saline solution), trying in vain to escape. How inhumane! If we "simple" people do not speak up for those who cannot, who will?
Is there a special Internet term for when someone writes a blog comment, gets a response that they don't like, and then scrubs the whole thing to make themselves look better? That's what Cheryl just did.
If there isn't a term for it, I'd like to call it the "Chop-N-Change". What do you think? If the mother of the blog's author does it, it could be called the "Mrs Chop-N-Change" or the "Chop-N-Change Mater". Maybe "Chop-N-Change Senior"? Any other suggestions?
How about this is my underage daughter's blog and I have that authority...? Really...just trying to figure out exactly where you are coming from. I say a baby is a baby at conception rather than the "lump of tissue" pro-choicers try to claim and you go off on a tangent. Why are you avoiding the question? What part of my original comment makes you think I need biology lessons?
Do you see where you say a 'baby' in reference to an embryo or fetus? See how you proclaim that 'babies do feel pain' as a blanket statement, apparently covering life from conception, using it as reasoning against abortion? That's what caused me to suggest you need a wee bit of a refresher course.
By the way, I think it's interesting that you used your underage daughter as an excuse to delete comments. One of the comments that you deleted was your own, and I can only imagine that you deleted it because it made you seem silly.
I think we're both up to date on our info, Cheryl probably more than I. When the baby is aborted, it jerks and has tremors and writhes in pain. Those are things the mother can't see, only the doctor. If you look at my comment below--that fetus IS a baby! Remember that "Horton Hears a Who" quote? "A person's a person no matter how small"? That IS a child, and 56 million of them have been murdered.
Planned Parenthood manager Abby Johnson witnessed a baby (via ultrasound) moving away from the instrument that would soon take its life. The nervous system begins forming at the end of the 2nd week after conception! How can you believe that the baby is not "capable of feeling pain"?!
Haley, how many people who work at abortion clinics do you know? They are incredibly dedicated people who chose thei work because they care deeply about helping women. And, usually because they have a significant other who can provide health insurance and monetary support, because the pay is bad and the benefits worse. That's what comes of a sliding scale non-profit.
This blog will tell you what sort of loving, self-sacrificing people work in these clinics http://abortionclinicdays.blogs.com/abortionclinicdays/2010/07/index.html
Hello! I'm a new person. Read through the comments a little. You make a good point about the abuse workers in abortion clinics receive. It's not right.
I'm a little confused though, and just want to make sure I understand. When do you think the fetus becomes a human life?
I'm not sure who this comment is directed toward, but we staunchly believe that a baby is a human life at conception. Everything is included in those cells that have been joined together; the DNA is in order; all that is necessary is time for development.
When Does Life Begin? Just when does an unborn baby become a “real person”? Science tells us that when the 23 chromosomes of the sperm unity with the ovum’s 23 chromosomes, a new 46 chromosome is formed. When this process (fertilization) is complete, a new human being exists. This cell is a complete genetic package programmed for development into a mature adult. Nothing will be added except time and nutrition. It’s been medically proven that the baby’s heart starts beating from 14-28 days after conception (usually before the mother even knows she’s pregnant), and by the 30th day, almost every organ has started to form! He moves his arms and legs by six weeks and by 43 days his brain waves can be READ. By eight weeks a baby has his very own fingerprints, he can urinate, make a strong fist, and he can feel pain. Each stage of development from fertilization to old age is merely a maturing of what is entirely there at the start.
As a side note here, when I sought an abortion in 1996, I was told that I had to be at least SEVEN weeks pregnant before the procedure could be performed.
A fetus cannot feel pain at 8 weeks. That is when its nervous system and brain first begin to form. It begins to feel pain well into the second trimester.
Well, what if my 3 year old's life depended on me donating bone marrow to him? I'm the only match out there. If I don't donate my bone marrow, he dies. There is no law saying I must donate my bone marrow to him. None. It's the same with an embryo or fetus. If the mother does not want to give up part of herself (uterus, blood supply, weight gain, financial stress, depression, feeling sick for 9 months, etc., etc.), she doesn't have to. That's what we call bodily autonomy. I do not have to sacrifice my body or part of my body in order to save someone else's life. It's even the case when I die. If I am not an organ donor, no one can take my organs when I die. Why are we saying that a pregnant woman cannot have the same rights as every other citizen when it comes to their pregnancy?
Amanda, as a mother I can tell you that LOVE for your child would compel you to donate that bone marrow, even if in doing so it cost you your own life.
I am a mother. I have a two year old son. I would most definitely donate bone marrow to him in the above situation. However, that would be my choice. There are no laws saying that I must. Just the same way I would choose not to have an abortion (unless my life was in danger, meaning I'd leave my husband without a wife and my son without a mother, or if there was early fetal demise).
Making abortion illegal is not going to stop abortions, it's just going to make them dangerous and possibly fatal to the woman involved, as well. If you truly want to end abortion, end the reasons women seek them out. A few of those reasons are; lack of sex ed, lack of cost effective birth control, lack of financial support (medical bills, food, having to take time off work where maternity benefits aren't offered), lack of emotional support (having to stay with an abusive husband/partner, for example), etc. It's funny that the most staunch pro-lifers also want to put an end to programs that would actually help a woman with an unwanted pregnancy (medicaid/socialized medicine, head start, food stamps, job training programs, better maternity benefits for the entire nation, etc.)
Regardless of the politics and political agenda there's a lot about this story that doesn't make sense.
-A nurse has enough medical knowledge and training to know about every stage of fetal development. And given how in-demand her job is (that the clinic only had one registered nurse) it seems weird she'd be in a line of work that she hated.
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-The nurse was terrible at her job. She was constantly late, and had a bad attitude towards her work. Why would the doctor want to fight to keep her at his clinic? In any case he had reason to complain about her lack of professionalism to her future employers. When the nurse retaliates to say she can report him for lack of professionalism she has no facts or examples to give. What did the doctor do that would mean he'd get lose his medical liscense? He had not anything unprofessional
-If a woman with a high paying job and insurance knows she's pregnant wouldn't she go to an OB-gyn for medical apointments?
Maybe it wasn't perfect, in fact, it wasn't! It was just a draft and an idea that she had, a school assignment, and a try. I think the story, adjusted and researched, could turn into a high impact story, and a means of supporting unborn children.
A pro-life story that is filled with inaccurate information does no good in supporting the pro-life stance. The story, if turned in like this without being almost entirely rewritten should have recieved a poor grade. It does not reflect well on homeschoolers or a pro-lifer that a 17 year old knew so little about the subject she was writing. At 17, if she is truly passionate about this subject she should be able to research and write a fiction story that is at least close to reality.
This is advice from a person who was homeschooled her entire life and at the age of 17 I knew about how to research a subject, even a subject for a quick assignment. I would have been handed this paper back and told to do it again because it showed that I had a complete lack of understanding when it came to the subject I was writing about. As my mother always said, anything worth doing is worth doing right.
Hmm. As I remember, we weren't debating the grade of the paper, but the topic of it. When we start grading her skills, perhaps you ought to read the things she has studied, like WWII. Gotta say, I'm a HUGE fan of her WWII stories.
As stated before, this was a quick writing assignment; written in an afternoon to be presented that evening after dinner. I did see that the story needed work, and regret that I didn't share that with Haley before she rushed to post it here for the anniversary of Roe vs Wade (per suggestion of her older sisters). Honestly though, I don't think it is nearly as bad as you are making it seem. "It does not reflect well on home-schoolers"???
I agree with you Ellie, and Haley is planning to do the research and revise the story. I would really like for her to talk with a former nurse who assisted with abortions, who had bought the lies that a "fetus" is not a baby till the day she removed her glove and found a perfectly- formed tiny hand.
As a R.N. who just retired after working 47 years I want to say what I most noticed about this story was how unprofessional the nurse was. A R.N. who is late every day for work in the real world is soon out of a job. Nursing isn't a profession where one can just show up late without consequences.
She hates her job but has to keep it because she needs the money and can't do anything else. Nursing is a wonderful profession because it offers so many different opportunities. She could get any number of jobs in a hospital, clinic, home care agency, or school.
A R.N. takes anatomy and physiology, and OB/GYN nursing as part of her/his undergraduate degree. She has studied all the stages of fetal development. She also would have seen prenatal ultrasounds before.
A R.N. would not delay starting prenatal care for her own pregnancy.She would have known she was pregnant prior to 3 months. It is highly unlikely she could walk into a crisis pregnancy center and get an ultrasound on her lunch break without a previous appointment.I also find it hard to believe that a recent widow would consider an abortion of her first pregnancy. I suppose it's a remote possibility but every woman I have known who has been pregnant at the time of her husband's death considers that pregnancy to be a blessing.
All in all, the story was too simplistic even for a 17 y.o.
I think it is great that you have chosen to tackle such an assignment and applaud your gracious response to the criticism you have received. I am compelled to explain a bit of the biology behind the arguments regarding fetuses feeling pain because it is not a simple concept to explain. Cheryl is correct. A fetus will react to a threatening stimulus by trying to move away or show other social cues that they are in pain. The stimulus (touch by a probe etc.) elicits a response (moving away, grimace) due to conduction through nerves, which indeed are developed very early in a pregnancy. However, very simple organisms such as flat worms will also have such automated responses to different stimuli because it it beneficial. That does not mean they have the brain power to consciously understand that they are being threatened with harm, that if they do not avoid the stimulus they will have pain, or what pain even represents. Poking them merely elicits a response. They are not consciously aware and therefore do not have conscious suffering.
So good, Haley! Thanks for sharing...you should consider entering this into a pro-life/right to life writing contest. I think each state has one, and there is also a national one. Hope all is well with your family.
ReplyDelete~Sveta
Well thank you, Sveta!
DeleteI will definitely consider it. Thanks for mentioning it.
All is well!
How is your family?
This is an awesome story idea. You could write a whole book about this.
ReplyDeleteI think though, she would be a little used to pro-life arguments. Instead if saying, "I thought it was a tissue at this point" she would probably say, "My fetus, it's not a child yet, you know." And, if she is assisting abortions, it depends on all she's doing, but she would probably know kind of what it looked like at that point. If you like, I can send you a pro-life track by Melody Green. She lists different methods of abortion, and though it's really, really--um, overwhelming and awful, you may like to read it. Let me know.
Love you darling. Keep praying for the children in America!
I agree that a trained nurse in this kind of clinic environment would be well aware of every stage of pregnancy and development. Generally, women who work in abortion clinics feel they have a calling for the women and their situations equal to the calling the women working in the crisis pregnancy centers. In fact, women working in abortion clinics may need deep dedication as they are often harrassed on their way to work, by mail and get death threats, etc.
DeleteI believe that by 3 months, a widow who is in the medical profession would have already had prenatal care through a regular obgyn provider. I find it a stretch to believe a young widow who had a decent job (RN) would consider aborting a healthy fetus, because, as the author points out, she would want a part of her husband to continue.
The employee/employer interactions were a bit questionable as well. If she didn't like her job, there are quite a few jobs available for nurses in the USA, she would not be forced to work in an abortion clinic. Replacing her, depending on the area and how many threats exist toward people associated with the clinic might not be easy, but would not be impossible--and she would not be the only licensed nurse in the place, as that would mess with scheduling if she were sick. I would add her hollow threat at the end of telling people what the Doctor did in his clinic. There is not a state in the nation where who performs abortions is secret. Anti abortion groups publicize it and the abortion providers publicize it as well.
I know you'll just delete this comment and then change the parts of the story to make it look like you didn't make giant, factual mistakes but whatever.
ReplyDeleteEven as propaganda this is crap. As a creative story it's truly juvenile in writing style. There's no depth.
A 3 month old fetus doesn't BREATHE. It gets necessary oxygen through the o2 exchange between the umbilical cord and the placenta.
A RN would know exactly what a 3 month old fetus would look like especially one that worked at a women's health clinic (there are no "abortion" clinics - places that do only abortions).
Being repeatedly late to work doesn't make the doctor a bad guy, it makes the nurse irresponsible.
Hey Andrew, did you catch that this was a school assignment and that Haley is 17? Yeah, so...I guess that would explain the fact that it sounds "juvenile". I agree that speaking with a former abortion clinic nurse would have been beneficial, but as she had little time to complete this assignment, I still gave her a good grade. ~Haley's Mom
DeleteAt 17 I had already been volunteering at the local women's health center for 3 years. I ran sex and sexuality education trainings. We were, and are, on the opposite side of the abortion debate but I did know my stuff back then. There is no excuse for her not knowing her stuff. No need to seek a clinic nurse to speak with (and no need for it to be a former clinic nurse if she does). Some internet searching of FACTUAL information (not simplistic propaganda) would have served well.
DeleteAnd of course you gave her a good grade. She's your kid and she agrees with your political beliefs. If the same level of writing had been done and it had been a pro-choice creative story I'm sure you wouldn't have given her the same "good grade."
I readily admit that Haley is not quite as educated about such matters as you were. As stated before, this was a quick school assignment (she chose the topic) and I am impressed with her writing style and wording. She is learning about research and eventually will "know her stuff". She posted this thinking it would be read only by her writing buddies; she really had no idea it would be posted in a forum where it would be torn apart. We will allow it to stay, because I believe there is a good lesson in responsibility to be learned here.
DeleteIf she had written this from a pro-choice stance I would have much more to be concerned about than her level of writing. I would feel that I had failed miserably as a God-fearing Christian mom.
On a side note Andrew, I want to tell you that though I do not agree with your worldview, I do respect the fact that you at least sign your name, standing behind your words, rather than hiding behind anonymous comments. Thank you for that.
I sign my name because I'm not ashamed to say what I say, just as you aren't ashamed to say what you say. We certainly aren't going to agree, I just wish you'd let your daughter a little more space to think without worrying you'll disown or be upset by that. One of the BEST parts about creative writing is to take on a topic that's totally outside your worldview.
DeleteBut we don't need to argue. I wish you and your family all the best.
No registered nurse would be able to complete her education without knowing what a fetus looks like in all stages of development. And there are many, many places in which a nurse could choose to work other than in a women's health center that provides abortions to those who choose them.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever visited one of these health centers? Have you ever spoken to people who work in them?
The entire section about Sarah's visit to the pregnancy crisis center makes no sense. Did she want to end her pregnancy or to have something by which she could remember her late husband? If she wanted to have her baby, why didn't she have an ob-gyn lined up and visit him/her instead? Why would she visit a pregnancy crisis center, when she could have gotten the ultrasound (perhaps for free) at the clinic where she worked?
And the Big Bad Dr. Owens character is laughable. "I'll ruin your name"? Making your characters into all-good or all-evil ones results in amateurish writing.
Thank you for your constructive criticism. I'm sure Haley will continue working on her story, including speaking with a Christian former nurse who assisted with abortions on occasion. Perhaps you would like to read her story, a woman who had an abortion herself and how when she found a perfectly formed tiny hand on her glove one day, she ran out of the operating room, refusing to return...Here's the link: http://www.deeprootsathome.com/now-i-value-life/
DeleteThanks for sharing that story, Mrs. Long. It was good!
DeleteI think the main problem comes from the author's political stance. Pro-life propaganda is very simplistic. The argument seems to be that most pro-choice people are either evil or don't understand the biology of pregnancy. This simplistic propaganda leads pro-lifers to believe that screaming "a fetus is a BABY!" is a meaningful argument. Usually, pro-choice people do understand the nature of the embryo or fetus (BTW, a fetus is not 'breathing' and I'm guessing the word 'viable' doesn't mean what you think it means). Throwing around words like 'child' and 'miracle' will not cause a pro-choice person to magically change their mind.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine being forced to carry a pregancy to term when you didn't want it? When you couldn't bear it? When the thought of it made you want to kill yourself? That is what the choice of abortion is for. It's not "all abortions, all the time!", it's not because pro-choicers don't want to have children or don't want others to have children. It's to have the option there if you need it.
Can YOU imagine being a helpless, vulnerable baby (which we all were at one time), safe and comfy in your mommy's womb when a sharp metal instrument suddenly invades your sanctuary, and begins ripping you apart. Babies do feel pain! Have you ever seen an abortion? Babies can be seen via ultrasound moving away from the metal tool (or saline solution), trying in vain to escape. How inhumane! If we "simple" people do not speak up for those who cannot, who will?
DeleteWow, somebody needs a biology lesson! (Hint: Cheryl, it's you).
DeleteAnd you base this conclusion on...?
DeleteIs there a special Internet term for when someone writes a blog comment, gets a response that they don't like, and then scrubs the whole thing to make themselves look better? That's what Cheryl just did.
DeleteIf there isn't a term for it, I'd like to call it the "Chop-N-Change". What do you think? If the mother of the blog's author does it, it could be called the "Mrs Chop-N-Change" or the "Chop-N-Change Mater". Maybe "Chop-N-Change Senior"? Any other suggestions?
How about this is my underage daughter's blog and I have that authority...?
DeleteReally...just trying to figure out exactly where you are coming from. I say a baby is a baby at conception rather than the "lump of tissue" pro-choicers try to claim and you go off on a tangent. Why are you avoiding the question? What part of my original comment makes you think I need biology lessons?
Do you see where you say a 'baby' in reference to an embryo or fetus? See how you proclaim that 'babies do feel pain' as a blanket statement, apparently covering life from conception, using it as reasoning against abortion? That's what caused me to suggest you need a wee bit of a refresher course.
DeleteBy the way, I think it's interesting that you used your underage daughter as an excuse to delete comments. One of the comments that you deleted was your own, and I can only imagine that you deleted it because it made you seem silly.
I think we're both up to date on our info, Cheryl probably more than I.
DeleteWhen the baby is aborted, it jerks and has tremors and writhes in pain. Those are things the mother can't see, only the doctor.
If you look at my comment below--that fetus IS a baby!
Remember that "Horton Hears a Who" quote? "A person's a person no matter how small"? That IS a child, and 56 million of them have been murdered.
It does not have a nervous system capable of feeling pain. And it does not writhe in pain (outside of propaganda films).
DeletePlanned Parenthood manager Abby Johnson witnessed a baby (via ultrasound) moving away from the instrument that would soon take its life. The nervous system begins forming at the end of the 2nd week after conception! How can you believe that the baby is not "capable of feeling pain"?!
DeleteHaley, how many people who work at abortion clinics do you know? They are incredibly dedicated people who chose thei work because they care deeply about helping women. And, usually because they have a significant other who can provide health insurance and monetary support, because the pay is bad and the benefits worse. That's what comes of a sliding scale non-profit.
ReplyDeleteThis blog will tell you what sort of loving, self-sacrificing people work in these clinics
http://abortionclinicdays.blogs.com/abortionclinicdays/2010/07/index.html
Hello! I'm a new person. Read through the comments a little. You make a good point about the abuse workers in abortion clinics receive. It's not right.
DeleteI'm a little confused though, and just want to make sure I understand. When do you think the fetus becomes a human life?
I'm not sure who this comment is directed toward, but we staunchly believe that a baby is a human life at conception. Everything is included in those cells that have been joined together; the DNA is in order; all that is necessary is time for development.
DeleteWell, a fetus without brain waves isn't going to feel or think or imagine anything. So...
ReplyDeleteWhen Does Life Begin? Just when does an unborn baby become a “real person”? Science tells us that when the 23 chromosomes of the sperm unity with the ovum’s 23 chromosomes, a new 46 chromosome is formed. When this process (fertilization) is complete, a new human being exists. This cell is a complete genetic package programmed for development into a mature adult. Nothing will be added except time and nutrition. It’s been medically proven that the baby’s heart starts beating from 14-28 days after conception (usually before the mother even knows she’s pregnant), and by the 30th day, almost every organ has started to form! He moves his arms and legs by six weeks and by 43 days his brain waves can be READ. By eight weeks a baby has his very own fingerprints, he can urinate, make a strong fist, and he can feel pain. Each stage of development from fertilization to old age is merely a maturing of what is entirely there at the start.
DeleteAs a side note here, when I sought an abortion in 1996, I was told that I had to be at least SEVEN weeks pregnant before the procedure could be performed.
DeleteA fetus cannot feel pain at 8 weeks. That is when its nervous system and brain first begin to form. It begins to feel pain well into the second trimester.
DeleteMay I inquire, where is this information coming from?
DeleteI just wonder, why is it okay to kill the unborn, and not kill...say...a 3-year old?
ReplyDeleteIndeed. If you drugged the 3-year old to sleep and killed him painlessly, is it any different?
DeleteWell, what if my 3 year old's life depended on me donating bone marrow to him? I'm the only match out there. If I don't donate my bone marrow, he dies. There is no law saying I must donate my bone marrow to him. None. It's the same with an embryo or fetus. If the mother does not want to give up part of herself (uterus, blood supply, weight gain, financial stress, depression, feeling sick for 9 months, etc., etc.), she doesn't have to. That's what we call bodily autonomy. I do not have to sacrifice my body or part of my body in order to save someone else's life. It's even the case when I die. If I am not an organ donor, no one can take my organs when I die. Why are we saying that a pregnant woman cannot have the same rights as every other citizen when it comes to their pregnancy?
DeleteAmanda, as a mother I can tell you that LOVE for your child would compel you to donate that bone marrow, even if in doing so it cost you your own life.
DeleteI am a mother. I have a two year old son. I would most definitely donate bone marrow to him in the above situation. However, that would be my choice. There are no laws saying that I must. Just the same way I would choose not to have an abortion (unless my life was in danger, meaning I'd leave my husband without a wife and my son without a mother, or if there was early fetal demise).
DeleteMaking abortion illegal is not going to stop abortions, it's just going to make them dangerous and possibly fatal to the woman involved, as well. If you truly want to end abortion, end the reasons women seek them out. A few of those reasons are; lack of sex ed, lack of cost effective birth control, lack of financial support (medical bills, food, having to take time off work where maternity benefits aren't offered), lack of emotional support (having to stay with an abusive husband/partner, for example), etc. It's funny that the most staunch pro-lifers also want to put an end to programs that would actually help a woman with an unwanted pregnancy (medicaid/socialized medicine, head start, food stamps, job training programs, better maternity benefits for the entire nation, etc.)
Regardless of the politics and political agenda there's a lot about this story that doesn't make sense.
ReplyDelete-A nurse has enough medical knowledge and training to know about every stage of fetal development. And given how in-demand her job is (that the clinic only had one registered nurse) it seems weird she'd be in a line of work that she hated.
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-The nurse was terrible at her job. She was constantly late, and had a bad attitude towards her work. Why would the doctor want to fight to keep her at his clinic? In any case he had reason to complain about her lack of professionalism to her future employers. When the nurse retaliates to say she can report him for lack of professionalism she has no facts or examples to give. What did the doctor do that would mean he'd get lose his medical liscense? He had not anything unprofessional
-If a woman with a high paying job and insurance knows she's pregnant wouldn't she go to an OB-gyn for medical apointments?
Maybe it wasn't perfect, in fact, it wasn't! It was just a draft and an idea that she had, a school assignment, and a try. I think the story, adjusted and researched, could turn into a high impact story, and a means of supporting unborn children.
DeleteA pro-life story that is filled with inaccurate information does no good in supporting the pro-life stance. The story, if turned in like this without being almost entirely rewritten should have recieved a poor grade. It does not reflect well on homeschoolers or a pro-lifer that a 17 year old knew so little about the subject she was writing. At 17, if she is truly passionate about this subject she should be able to research and write a fiction story that is at least close to reality.
DeleteThis is advice from a person who was homeschooled her entire life and at the age of 17 I knew about how to research a subject, even a subject for a quick assignment. I would have been handed this paper back and told to do it again because it showed that I had a complete lack of understanding when it came to the subject I was writing about. As my mother always said, anything worth doing is worth doing right.
Hmm. As I remember, we weren't debating the grade of the paper, but the topic of it. When we start grading her skills, perhaps you ought to read the things she has studied, like WWII. Gotta say, I'm a HUGE fan of her WWII stories.
DeleteAs stated before, this was a quick writing assignment; written in an afternoon to be presented that evening after dinner. I did see that the story needed work, and regret that I didn't share that with Haley before she rushed to post it here for the anniversary of Roe vs Wade (per suggestion of her older sisters). Honestly though, I don't think it is nearly as bad as you are making it seem. "It does not reflect well on home-schoolers"???
DeleteI agree with you Ellie, and Haley is planning to do the research and revise the story. I would really like for her to talk with a former nurse who assisted with abortions, who had bought the lies that a "fetus" is not a baby till the day she removed her glove and found a perfectly- formed tiny hand.
As a R.N. who just retired after working 47 years I want to say what I most noticed about this story was how unprofessional the nurse was. A R.N. who is late every day for work in the real world is soon out of a job. Nursing isn't a profession where one can just show up late without consequences.
ReplyDeleteShe hates her job but has to keep it because she needs the money and can't do anything else. Nursing is a wonderful profession because it offers so many different opportunities. She could get any number of jobs in a hospital, clinic, home care agency, or school.
A R.N. takes anatomy and physiology, and OB/GYN nursing as part of her/his undergraduate degree. She has studied all the stages of fetal development. She also would have seen prenatal ultrasounds before.
A R.N. would not delay starting prenatal care for her own pregnancy.She would have known she was pregnant prior to 3 months. It is highly unlikely she could walk into a crisis pregnancy center and get an ultrasound on her lunch break without a previous appointment.I also find it hard to believe that a recent widow would consider an abortion of her first pregnancy. I suppose it's a remote possibility but every woman I have known who has been pregnant at the time of her husband's death considers that pregnancy to be a blessing.
All in all, the story was too simplistic even for a 17 y.o.
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ReplyDeleteI think it is great that you have chosen to tackle such an assignment and applaud your gracious response to the criticism you have received.
ReplyDeleteI am compelled to explain a bit of the biology behind the arguments regarding fetuses feeling pain because it is not a simple concept to explain. Cheryl is correct. A fetus will react to a threatening stimulus by trying to move away or show other social cues that they are in pain. The stimulus (touch by a probe etc.) elicits a response (moving away, grimace) due to conduction through nerves, which indeed are developed very early in a pregnancy. However, very simple organisms such as flat worms will also have such automated responses to different stimuli because it it beneficial. That does not mean they have the brain power to consciously understand that they are being threatened with harm, that if they do not avoid the stimulus they will have pain, or what pain even represents. Poking them merely elicits a response. They are not consciously aware and therefore do not have conscious suffering.
Thank you so much for your support! I greatly appreciate it!
DeleteAnd thank you very much for this information. It will be of some good use. :)
God bless you!